We're retiring some trails

Upcase
21

Totally disagree with ditching the Bourbon trail. In my opinion, understanding that framework is to understand the Thoughtbot way of doing Rails applications; it seems to fit perfectly into the renewed Rails focus. I’ve also found that many Rails devs, especially in the intermediate level are terrible at front end. Helping educate us on the full stack seems to be very valuable.

I also would vote that perhaps the dead trails ought to live on in some, perhaps less obvious, but still available format. After all, I couldn’t imagine bandwidth being the issue and it seems a bit sad to just destroy content that, for some of us, probably has great value but we haven’t really had the chance to use yet. Haskell, for example. I might be alone here, but I’d pay for access to these “dead” trails.

Or, perhaps just open source those trails/exercises, etc. I know Thoughtbot is famous for saying “no” a lot, however this might be a place to make an exception… Perhaps new content going forward can be more laser focused, but retiring/killing/exterminating valuable stuff that could perhaps be hidden or restricted/grandfathered to/for existing members.

You’ve given us apple pies and now you’re taking them away. Granted, the blueberry pie is still awesome, but just throwing the apple pies in the trash seems like a tragedy. Would Paul Revere have tossed Ember into the furnace? Would Patrick Henry have surrendered Haskell to the British? Would Abraham Woodhull have concealed CSS from George Washington? Would Bourbon be denied to our fighting men as they stood proud against the Redcoats?

If Thoughtbot and Upcase were just some other New York or San Fran company where soy milk and kale filled the beer fridge, I probably wouldn’t care. But Thoughtbot is an American institution, proudly in Boston, standing vigil over the heritage of our great nation and the revolutionary spirit that brought us Factories over Fixtures, Bourbon over Bootstrap and Tea over Taxation without Representation.

Stand proud! Keep the retired trails available, at least among us insiders, perhaps hidden behind some obscure preference pane so that we may sip from the cup of Upcase, Learn and Prime heritage.

Captain Brian R. Dear
Cdr. Company B
8th Massachusetts Regiment
Continental Army of 1777

4 Likes
22

I’m encouraged by the decision to focus on the intermediate+ content. That’s what I find best about Upcase. However, I will echo many of the other commenters here and prefer that the existing trails/content be kept, though perhaps not highlighted on the main page for existing subscribers - grandfathered-in so to speak.

23

Maybe you all could put the deprecated trails in their own repo on GitHub, w/ a link to that somewhere in Upcase, that way we can still access them if we ever want to peruse?

1 Like
24

Haskell monads has been on my interest list for a long time. I will really miss CSS Animation. And I’m very happy I finished Getting Started with iOS Development before it went away.

But it clear that I am not in the target market, I’m a senior-level Rails developer eager to learn all the cool stuff I’ve missed out on.

1 Like
25

I’ll also +1 keeping the content that’s not Rails basics and not out-of-date. Anything that’s a likely CodeSchool or Treehouse topic is probably fine to remove for the most part – especially if its HTML, JS, or CSS basics.

I also totally get removing Intro to Rails so you don’t have to update it for Rails 5, etc. I’d also like to assume everyone is a Rails developer here so that content isn’t useful.

As a long-time developer though, I love intermediate level quickstarts. I’d rather start Haskell with Upcase since you expect me to be intermediate or above and because none of your competitors are going to do it.

You definitely don’t need to overlap the intro level content other folks have unless you can do an intelligent quickstart for an experienced developer. Ember should stay. Bourbon should stay since you have a stake in it at Thoughtbot. I’d lean towards including special topics like CSS Animation.

But what I want to make clear is that you shouldn’t reshoot old content for newer versions that doesn’t deserve it. If CSS Animations isn’t really used, wait til its not useful and remove it. But if something is still useful, especially things that are off the mainline of your target market (a Ruby/Rails dev perhaps?) maybe keep it.

I’d be thrilled to see a “Quickstart on Ember” replace your ember for example. I’d prefer one stop shopping in general, but if I have to get “Intro to iOS Dev” from Treehouse/Codeschool/etc, so be it. But I want to come here to really learn to dev it.

26

I really don’t see the problem in keeping this content alive somewhere. I’m personally getting a lot out of some of it, and other things would be nice to investigate in the future. If the scope of what I can learn from Upcase narrows, so too will my reasons to remain a subscriber.

2 Likes
27

+1 for keeping this content also. Even though things may change, it’s nice to go back for a sanity check/refresh every now and then. I’d prefer just a “retired trails” section.

-Adam

1 Like
28

Focus is alright, deleting current content IS NOT

I don’t really get how deleting content improves focus. I understand that NOT producing any more entry level content and NOT advertising entry level content would help, but deleting existing content feels like taking away something from current subscribers.

a) You never use 100% of features. Even after a few years of experience it’s good to go through the basics again, chances are you forgot about some basic tricks

b) iOS development, Ember, Haskel, etc - things that aren’t in my area atm, but i’d love to go through the basics at some point just for general knowledge.

c) Also its not a pleasant feeling when you’re paying for something, but suddenly start getting less in return.

So, why don’t you just keep the current stuff available to current subscribers and hide it from new ones? That would solve the focus issue and keep current clients happy.

Thanks,
M.

29

I feel like the main issue with keeping vs removing old content is the maintenance penalty. Any piece of content on technology goes of date incredibly fast. In that sense, part of defining a narrower focus involves choosing not to spend resources on the maintenance of content that becomes tangencial to the direction/main focus for the Upcase team.

1 Like
30

I agree with Pedro. I think focusing on intermediate to advanced Ruby/Rails concepts is great. There aren’t a lot of resources out there in this area, and is my primary motivation for using Upcase. While some of the retired trails are nice-to-haves, the ones focusing on the new direction are must-haves. That’s why I agree, and prefer more and better content in the narrower focus. Recent additions such as the Flashcards are a clear example of the benefits of this new direction.

31

I’m a self-taught rails programmer who just landed my first contract. I switched from codeschool to upcase because of the emphasis on intermediate skills. But I’m still pretty naive about front-end stuff, and at some point in the near future I’m going to need to learn ember. So if that trail disappears I feel like I’m going to need to at least temporarily switch back to codeschool. That being said, if I had to choose between more advanced concepts and beginner front-end stuff, I would go with the advanced concepts.

I have a stronger objection is to taking away the haskel trail. Transitioning from a newbie to an experienced developer, involves (I hope) moving away from being depending on a specific language and paradigm, to being able to use the right language and paradigm for the job. As a language that really forces a functional paradigm I imagine haskel being a good way to expand our development chops.

32

Hey all!

Thanks to all the responders so far for your feedback. We hear you loud and clear.

A few thoughts:

  1. It’s clear we need to cover front-end development, particularly with the tools we’ve created in-house, like Bourbon, Neat, etc. We’re planning on developing an overhauled trail on this topic.

  2. I understand that it feels like a waste to remove content, but as @pedrosmmoreira points out, each trail represents a maintenance burden. I’d rather have a smaller core of trails that are up to date and very clear than a larger catalog that includes things we’re not proud of. That said, if/when the Upcase team expands, we’ll be able to take on more topics.

  3. It seems like folks are more interested in tangential topics like Haskell than I expected (or that the usage numbers actually demonstrate :smile:). I’m going to consider restoring the Haskell trails, possibly in a “Extracurricular” section.

1 Like
33

I would really like to see this stuff moved to another repo or something.
The Backbone on Rails is really interesting to me and I’d hate to see it go,
but it seems I’m in the minority

2 Likes
34

Abandon it, label it accordingly and don’t put any more work into these, that sounds fine. But why not keep them around for folks?

4 Likes
35

Freeze it and keep it. Even slightly outdated that content has some value.

4 Likes
36

Personally, I would really like to see some of the content continue to be available, like:

  • SASS Fundamentals
  • Bourbon Fundamentals
  • CSS and Transitions
  • CSS Animations
  • Rails Fundamentals
  • Intro to Ruby on Rails

While maybe not part of your core, I have found these “tangential” topics useful. I understand the maintenance burden but maybe you could publish it as a static site relegated to an archived section of your site. Also, I really disagree with removing content on tools (like Bourbon) that you produce.

With regards to the RoR topics, your focus might not be on introductory Rails but remember that not everyone works on Rails everyday so while one may have experience with an older version of Rails, getting up to speed on the latest version would be helpful. With the amount that Rails changes between major versions sometimes coming up to speed on the latest version of Rails seems like learning things all over again.

2 Likes
37

Revisiting this thread again clearly shows that a lot of members wish to keep this content around. Ignoring these voices would be surprising.

Maybe a compromise would be to keep them around a bit longer so that people have a better chance of finishing these trails. August will be pretty hectic for me for example and I wouldn’t mind having some extra time to visit some of the trails. :smile:

38

Totally.

We’re discussing this and will post an update shortly.

3 Likes
39

Hey folks,

First, we wanted to say thank you for the many well articulated responses. You have been heard, and the content will safely live on!

Specifically, our plan is to keep the deprecated trails on the /pages/retired-trails page for the foreseeable future.

If nothing else, this thread has shown us how much you all value a variety of content. While we are committed to focusing on having the best trails and videos to support our core focus on leveling up intermediate Rails developers, we understand that this variety still has value for many of you and will keep that in mind as we plan out future courses.

Thanks,

Chris

11 Likes
40

I’d like to see more stuff about how to work with Rails as an API and integrate front end frameworks. I know Backbone is not as popular but what about React, Ember, Angular?
I’m assuming most folks here are backend developers or fullstack devs ( That’s why I use Rails ) but I’m more front end orientated. Am I in the minority here? I mean like you said Ben, your in-house stuff like Bourbon and Neat are great tools. JavaScript is not going anywhere soon. Will we see more frontend trails and working with the rails-api gem?

1 Like